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	<title>Comments on: Using the word &#8220;abolition&#8221; is insulting?</title>
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	<link>http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/</link>
	<description>A forum for the discussion of the abolitionist animal rights movement</description>
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		<title>By: the Asocial Ape</title>
		<link>http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>the Asocial Ape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>oh!  i read this bit today.  it&#039;s entitled &quot;LOVE DOES NOT IMPLY PACIFISM&quot; 
http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/16-Love-Pacifism.html

it&#039;s pretty good.  i&#039;d like to get the book, but it&#039;s like 20USD per volume!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh!  i read this bit today.  it&#8217;s entitled &#8220;LOVE DOES NOT IMPLY PACIFISM&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/16-Love-Pacifism.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/16-Love-Pacifism.html</a></p>
<p>it&#8217;s pretty good.  i&#8217;d like to get the book, but it&#8217;s like 20USD per volume!</p>
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		<title>By: the Asocial Ape</title>
		<link>http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>the Asocial Ape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-33</guid>
		<description>thanks peter.  i&#039;ll read them as soon as i am able.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks peter.  i&#8217;ll read them as soon as i am able.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Saczkowski</title>
		<link>http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Saczkowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Ya, I am very pro-nonviolence.  It would take a while to try and articulate my position, and even then it may not be very clear.  In any event, there is a good piece on abolitionist online by Jeff Perz that I have taken a lot from, it is here:
http://www.abolitionist-online.com/article-issue05_exclusive.non.violent.jeff-perz.shtml

Or, you can read what I published a little while back, it is here:
http://varikingston.wordpress.com/files/2007/09/syndicus-piece.doc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya, I am very pro-nonviolence.  It would take a while to try and articulate my position, and even then it may not be very clear.  In any event, there is a good piece on abolitionist online by Jeff Perz that I have taken a lot from, it is here:<br />
<a href="http://www.abolitionist-online.com/article-issue05_exclusive.non.violent.jeff-perz.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.abolitionist-online.com/article-issue05_exclusive.non.violent.jeff-perz.shtml</a></p>
<p>Or, you can read what I published a little while back, it is here:<br />
<a href="http://varikingston.wordpress.com/files/2007/09/syndicus-piece.doc" rel="nofollow">http://varikingston.wordpress.com/files/2007/09/syndicus-piece.doc</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: the Asocial Ape</title>
		<link>http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>the Asocial Ape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Hey there.  I&#039;m back.

Not to split hairs, but I think, John Brown is known for the raid on Harper&#039;s Ferry as a whole, including his capture, trial, and execution, not just for the fact that he was violent.  I could be wrong on that count, though.  I&#039;m sort of an &#039;American Civil War phile&#039;, and so my view may deviate from the norm.

I understand that there are strategic and moral reasons for abstaining from, or even actively working against the use of, violence when pursuing the goal of abolition.  I&#039;d be interested in hearing your arguments in that vein, as I respect anyone struggling for freedom for our cousins, and want to contribute in the most effective way that I can.

I don&#039;t take the route of violence myself, not because I believe it to be wrong, but because I am too cowardly and selfish to accept the consequences.  I&#039;m too well institutionalized, socialized, and programmed not to obey the rules.  It makes me feel about three inches tall.

That said, I&#039;d never condemn someone who followed in Brown&#039;s footsteps.

I think that the most effective liberation movements - the IRA, the PLO, even, though I disagree with  them, the Anti-abortion groups, best achieve, or at least move towards their goals because they have both military and political wings.

It&#039;s hard to write this the way I want, with the political and legal climate in the U$ being what it is.

I&#039;ll satisfy myself with answering your questions.

I don&#039;t think JB&#039;s position was better b/c he advocated violence.  I do think his motives were more pure than those of Abe, but just like animals don&#039;t care _why_ people don&#039;t eat them, only that they aren&#039;t eaten, I don&#039;t think the people freed by the Emancipation Proclamation cared that it was a political action, not a moral one.  The slaves in Union territory that were not emancipated by it were probably troubled, though.  I think to them, John Brown was more a hero than Lincoln.  Though for them, both Lincoln, and John Brown failed to deliver, and ultimately, what matters in this war is results, not intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there.  I&#8217;m back.</p>
<p>Not to split hairs, but I think, John Brown is known for the raid on Harper&#8217;s Ferry as a whole, including his capture, trial, and execution, not just for the fact that he was violent.  I could be wrong on that count, though.  I&#8217;m sort of an &#8216;American Civil War phile&#8217;, and so my view may deviate from the norm.</p>
<p>I understand that there are strategic and moral reasons for abstaining from, or even actively working against the use of, violence when pursuing the goal of abolition.  I&#8217;d be interested in hearing your arguments in that vein, as I respect anyone struggling for freedom for our cousins, and want to contribute in the most effective way that I can.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t take the route of violence myself, not because I believe it to be wrong, but because I am too cowardly and selfish to accept the consequences.  I&#8217;m too well institutionalized, socialized, and programmed not to obey the rules.  It makes me feel about three inches tall.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;d never condemn someone who followed in Brown&#8217;s footsteps.</p>
<p>I think that the most effective liberation movements &#8211; the IRA, the PLO, even, though I disagree with  them, the Anti-abortion groups, best achieve, or at least move towards their goals because they have both military and political wings.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to write this the way I want, with the political and legal climate in the U$ being what it is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll satisfy myself with answering your questions.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think JB&#8217;s position was better b/c he advocated violence.  I do think his motives were more pure than those of Abe, but just like animals don&#8217;t care _why_ people don&#8217;t eat them, only that they aren&#8217;t eaten, I don&#8217;t think the people freed by the Emancipation Proclamation cared that it was a political action, not a moral one.  The slaves in Union territory that were not emancipated by it were probably troubled, though.  I think to them, John Brown was more a hero than Lincoln.  Though for them, both Lincoln, and John Brown failed to deliver, and ultimately, what matters in this war is results, not intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: the Asocial Ape</title>
		<link>http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>the Asocial Ape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varikingston.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/using-the-word-abolition-is-insulting/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>aiee.  i just checked back here and saw you replied to my comment.
i&#039;m getting ready to go feed the strays, and don&#039;t have much time.  i&#039;ll respond in detail later.  but yes, john brown most definitely violent.  more so in &#039;bleeding kansas&#039; than in the raid on harper&#039;s ferry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aiee.  i just checked back here and saw you replied to my comment.<br />
i&#8217;m getting ready to go feed the strays, and don&#8217;t have much time.  i&#8217;ll respond in detail later.  but yes, john brown most definitely violent.  more so in &#8216;bleeding kansas&#8217; than in the raid on harper&#8217;s ferry.</p>
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